Hi Martin,

>Hi, Jim.
>
>Let me jump in with a few questions and comments:
>
>>1. The issue was BUG FIXES and not "upgrades". We're all happy to pay for upgrades of significance. BUGS are another matter and it is my opinion that anyone who dismisses them as minor/irrelevant does us ALL a disservice. It is immaterial that the VFP Team is small and possibly in jeopardy.
>
>What critical bugs are still in VFP 8 that justify another Service Pack from your point of view?

Now there's the rub, so to speak... at one time the deemed "criticality" of a bug had no relationship to issuing of a service pak. Things like numbers of bugs fixed since last, support for new OS features and other factors all played a role in determining if/when a service pak would be issued. Sure, a critical issue might speed it up, but that's not the point.Indeed it seems that mainly VFP suffers from having criticality as the ONLY (repeat: ONLY) determinant issue.
So, to answer your question... for me the improper handling of collection iterations is a bad remaining one, having by now caused not only aggravation widely but also workarounds galore now in place. I've seen numerous reports here of grid-related anomolies that followed VFP8. Not only is this bad for heavy grid users, but it also serves to reinforce the option that some of us have adopted that grids seem a tad too risky/finnicky for regular use. I'm sure, in fact, that there are many GOOD reasons for there to have been a servicer pak since SP1.

>
>>2) It is also a VERY sore point that long-reported bugs remain as bugs even to this date - another issue raised and ignored in your reply. In fact the real sore point is that all bugs go into the black hole called Microsoft. Fortunately, in a few cases, we now get acknowledgement that a bug has been SUBMITTED. While that represents a bit of progress, the fact that it's status is thereafter LOST and UNKNOWN is troublesome.
>
>Yes, this is something that can always be improved. I would ask here also what are the critical bugs whose tracking is lost.

The fact of the matter is, we can NEVER KNOW. And, again, what's "critical" to me can be nothing of consequence to you... depending on if you hit the situation or not.
I shudder to think of the hours lost by souls who manifest the same bug in their own code as countless others have already AND SIMILARLY SPENT THE SAME HOURS SOLVING THEIRS.
ANY bug that causes loss of time because it is not readily available in a list of known bugs is a tragedy that NEED NOT BE! But it is unavoidable with all of the 'help' Microsoft offers in this instance. How many new bug reports for VFP8 have you found in MSDN... compared to the number reported just here for example????

>
>
>>3) That you get VFPx through MSDN is true, but you fool only yourself if you think it's "free". Your subscription price includes such updates, and I seriously doubt that anyone would subscribe if it did not.
>
>Of course, I guess Peter knows that, and he just wanted to mean that he doesn't need to worry about getting them.

I guess he does too, but it was he who mentioned "free" so I felt a comment was in order.

>
>>A MSDN subscription is VERY pricey, especially in less rich countries.
>
>This is true if you just need VFP. In that case, MSDN would be an overkill. If you need a couple more products, a subscription can be cheaper than getting them separatedly. Being heavy users of many products, it has always being a great deal for us. Indeed, I have both MSDN and Technet.

Well it's pricey even so!!! For me it is over $3,000CDN for MSDN Universal Upgrade. I was fortunate enough to get one last year for $899.USD on eBay. It has expired now and I may look there again once MS has delivered some more interesting software, next year. At $899. it was a reasonable deal, but $3,000+ is simply too much. And, given the extremely POOR quality of the Office 2003 suite included in my subscription I just might have been better off without that version of Office!

I guess what it comes down to is the consistent and ever-growing situation (with the exception of computer hardware) of paying more and getting less. I cannot tell you how much it bothers me to see ever widening acceptance of this, even to the point of making excuses for the vendors who practise such.

cheers

>
>Best regards,