Ever hear of "the dipshit bit"? When a user has a problem (something won't work right) and they call you to look at it, how often do you walk up, touch the keyboard and it works? All the time for me, and then the user says, "but I did that!" So I tell them about the "dipshit bit" that many programs have. Basically, the program checks to see if you do something "wrong" three times in a row and then it sets "the dipshit bit" - then even if you do the "right" thing it won't work because it knows it's dealing with someone who doesn't *really* know how the program is supposed to work. However most dipshit bits have a timeout value of, say, 2 minutes inactivity - at which point the program assumes you've gone to get help from someone else - so it clears the dipshit bit and works fine. Alternatively, some programs must be shut down and restarted in order to clear the dipshit bit and on *very* rare occasion, a complete re-install is necessary, but only if the original programmer was a real bastard! You wouldn't believe how many people believe that story! Glad I could contribute a little something to the UT since my VFP isn't that great... now back to lurking! Kevin E. Stroud >>>yup -- when in doubt, invoke thunking. i'll save that for my other fpw mess. >> >>I'll file this one away. The weathermen say El Nino is losing steam so I need another excuse for things. <g> > >hmmmm.... El Nino aye? I think I will have retire my Gremlins theory in lieu of a freak of nature ;) I've used the "cyber gerbils" excuse before. You can try that one too.