Thanks for the links, BOb.

I have the eval of IronSpeed fired up now. Suggest you take a look at it. Would like to know what you think of the SPs it generates.

It is in fact n-tier and you can modify the source in the VS IDE. Right now I am trying to get a handle on how hard different things are to modify, but I do find some of the syntax in their data objectification very VFEish ( getvalue/setvalue etc.)

The enterprise version is about $1500 for a year of upgrades. ( the one that doesnn't generate SPs is about $800.)

I am finding the current product won't work with VS 2005 Beta but they are going to release a product for that concurrent with the MS release. Trying to get clarification from them now as to whether this will be considered a different product or an upgrade if you have a subscription.

I'm going to checkout the other links you gave me now.

I am determined to find some tools to help flatten this ugly learning curve.

>I think until someone comes out with something like VFE for .Net your best choice is to choose a framework and then use a template based code generator tool to create your entity/business objects and SP's.
>
>Some good code genertors are
>
>http://www.ericjsmith.net/codesmith/
>http://www.mygenerationsoftware.com
>http://www.olymars.net/latest.zip
>
>The last above is pretty cool stuff. It was written by a guy at MS France. It is free but not supported.
>
>Also, Kathleen Dollard wrote a book on Code Generation for/with .Net that I am planning on getting.
>
>At this point I am leaning on using a persistence layer for appllications which goes against the current main stream of using SP's for data access. However, the Java camp has been using this technique for quite a while with plenty of success. Unfortunatly MS has dropped there version of this (Object Spaces) from Whidbey... so, I have been investigating third party implementations.
>
>BOb