I agree with you that Colin Powell was a more experienced voice in the matter and should have had more weight in decision making. The same is true of Shelton (however many Army seniors consider him lacking upstairs as well). However, to be fair to Bush many of his advisors at the time agreed with the war plans. It was not their decision alone. The problem is that those that had overwriding authority over the Generals on the scene in some cases and also used political pressure to have thier way. One of the problems with the position of General is that they server at the pleasure of the current President. It was not just cabinet members supporting it either. It is funny though how many disagreed with Wolfowitz in 1991 (Dick Cheney, Colin Powell, President George Bush Senior)


>I brought it up because you were defending Bush's intelligence and his cabinet choices. While no president can be held 100% accountable for every person in his administration, President Bush did decide in the months before the Iraq war to take the advice of Cheney and Rumsfeld, two men with no combat experience, over the advice of Colin Powell, whose credentials you have already laid out.
>
>If it doesn't directly point to a lack of intelligence, it at least points to some very poor decision making. Shortly after 9/11, when Wolfowitz suggested at Camp David that we attack Iraq first, rather than Afghanistan, and Colin Powell strongly objected, should have been the first sign. Yet it continued from there.
>
>Lastly, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz are still there. While there is something to be said for loyalty, there's something else to be said for ignoring incompetence. President Bush should have asked for their resignations months ago.
>
>
>>I do not dispute that they are not the most military qualified to be running the war. That was not the issue being discussed. I do agree with you on that one. However, Cheney is no less qualified for his position as V.P. than any other V.P. in the recent past. However, you now ask should they be running the war? No they should not be directly running the war - the Generals should be doing that. In my opinion, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz are the primary problems and need to go.
>>
>>
>>>What about the military credentials of Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Wolfowitz, who are largely responsible for the Iraq war plan? Here is what some retired generals have to say about these civilians running a military campaign:
>>>
>>>http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/pentagon/themes/secure.html
>>>
>>>While I am sure Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Wolfowitz have excellent resumes, having them run a military campaign is about as intelligent as having a Nobel Laureate in Economics with no programming experience design a database application.
>>>
>>>Lastly, since you mentioned Powell, what became of the Powell Doctrine? How did we so quickly forget the lessons of Vietnam?
>>>
>>>>Unless you read daily sitreps you can believe whatever the media wants you to believe. I can tell though from firsthand knowlege that we are indeed safer than pre-911. Are we safe enough though? Definitely not. At least weekly there is a very 'close-call' and daily there are instances that are stopped, traffickers that are apprehended, etc. It is absolutely frightening if you were to know about every incident or near-incident everyday. that is not just in the U.S. but worldwide. All it will take is for one single attempt to be successful and odds are that it will happen and not just once, but many times. With a country as open as ours, unless we close it down and take away human rights and individual freedoms, the risk will always be there and eventually someone somewhere will be successful. The public is definitely more aware of the threats today though and because of that everyone is more frightened.
>>>>
>>>>There seems to be a lot of discussion lately on President Bush's intelligence or lack thereof. He is by no means the most intelligent man in the United States, but lets compare his credentials, his cabinet's, as well as those in Hollywood that are currently defaming him.
>>>>
>>>>George Bush holds a Bachelors Degree from Yale University and an MBA from Harvard Business School. Even if he was someone admitted solely based on the influence of his father, he achieved more than most by attaining his degrees. Not an easy task by a longshot. To say otherwise is to be ignorant of the requirements of those schools.
>>>>http://www.whitehouse.gov/president/gwbbio.html
>>>>http://www.georgewbush.com/Bios/GeorgeWBush.aspx
>>>>
>>>>Dick Cheney boycotted his classes at Yale in protest. He was the only cabinet member to be asked to leave school. He has a Bachelors and Masters in Political Science from the University of Wyoming. He is also the recipient of an American Policitical Science Association Congressional fellowship.
>>>>http://www.whitehouse.org/administration/dick.asp
>>>>
>>>>Colin Powell graduated from the College of New York with a Bachelors Degree in geology. He holds a Master of Business Administration from George Washington University. He earned 2 Presidential Medals of Freedom, the President's Citizens Medal, the Congressional Gold Medal, the Secretary of State Distinguished Service Medal, and the Secretary of Energy Distinguished Service Medal. He earned the rank of a 4 Star General in the United States Army.
>>>>http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/biog/1349.htm
>>>>
>>>>Condoleezza Rice has a degree in Political Science and graduated Cum Laude and Phi Beta Kappa from the University of Denver. She earned a Masters Degree from the University of Notre Dame and a Doctorate from the University of Denver. She actually enrolled in university at age 15 and graduated at age 19.
>>>>http://www.whitehouse.gov/nsc/ricebio.html
>>>>
>>>>The Hollywood naysayers:
>>>>
>>>>Alec Baldwin dropped out of college. Returned to achieve BFA (took 13 years).
>>>>Sean Penn completed high school but never entered college.
>>>>Cher dropped out of high school in the 9th grade.
>>>>George Clooney dropped out of Northern Kentucky University.
>>>>Michael Moore dropped out of his first year of college (University of Michigan).
>>>>Martin Sheen failed to pass the entrance exam to the University of Dayton.
>>>>Mike Farell dropped of UCLA
>>>>Susan Sarandon graduated high school, never attended college.
>>>>Ben Affleck dropped out of the Univ of Vermont after one semester and then Occidental College after 1 year.
>>>>
>>>>Many despise President Bush but believe that President John F Kennedy was a man of peace. President Kennedy did not stop Soviet ships from unloading nuclear missiles in Cuba with peace promises or UN sanctions. President Reagon did not end the cold war with peace conferences and UN sanctions. Rather he made it clear to Gorbachev (the real responsible party for the end of the Cold War) that the price for arms control agreements with the United States would be Soviet respect for human rights and the end of Soviet imperialism abroad. Gorbachev effectively ended the cold war with his reform agenda. Reagan's expensive defense buildup changed the equation between the U.S. and Soviet Union and gave Gorbachev the political pressure he needed to push forward his agenda.
>>>>
>>>>Those that attack President Bush for using force were silent when President Clinton bombed a factory in Khartoum or when the U.S. bombed the Serbs. No peace rallys were held then.
>>>>
>>>>I do not agree entirely with any of the political parties. I despise some our country's political decisions in the past as well as military ones which I was forced to participate in myself. However, it is patently clear that George W. Bush did not become President of the United States based on his 'lack of' intelligence. His cabinet stacks up well to that of past Presidents as well. Whether you agree with him or hate him, he has earned his position. He was voted into office.