>>You define a group by the crimes they commit. If you identify a group, you'll often see they are homgenous in ethnicity, religion and age. That is the difficult part. The problem always was that the police did not want to give them any excuse for discrimination so they tend to be much to tolerant. I think those days are over and we have to take some action.

>I guess I'm still having trouble with the "group" part of all this. If you have 3-strikes and your out or leave the country if you do this, then how would anyone outside of committing those crimes be affected? If the problem is truly within the "group" then only they would be affected. If someone outside the "group" commits the same crimes, then why should they be excluded from the punishment?

The type of crimes we are talking about are mostly group related. For example: Intimidation, Collective theft/robbery, Terrorism, etc. The crimes that refure the dutch standards and laws.

To be clear those punishments should also apply to induviduals. However if they are in a group it is more difficult to hunt them down (how do you arrest a single person if they are standing within an agressive group of 30 people?). Then you better watch those groups and try to pick out the rotten apples at a given time and pusnish them hard to give a message to the group. Criminal behaviour in group is totally different from individual criminal activity.

We are esspecially worried about criminal activities occuring in groups, so we have to give the groups hard messages....

Walter,