>Dragan,
>
>>>But it was nice to grow among self-organized people, who didn't wait for anyone's order or call when they wanted to do something.
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>You were privileged. It is sad that such environments do not seem to survive beyond a certain size or more than a fraction of a generation in time.
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>Have you read Animal Farm?
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>>>Established religions have the mechanism which enables them to outlast the time when they were beneficial to the civilization, IMO. Resistance to logic and reasoning is one of the key features of the mechanism.
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>Which religion resists logic and reasoning? I am not referring to you, but often those who accuse religions of this are themselves illogical and intolerant of anybody "stupid enough to disagree with them".
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>>>Not that they are wrong all the time - but they often are. I've heard quite often that this or that moral trait is the key to stability of the society, and then these traits haven't passed the test of time - and nothing bad happened to the societies, they just go on.
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>I think standards and self-restraint have a lot to do with it. It is no bad thing to be told we need to stop at a red light even though a stream of cars stopping just because a light changes color may seem illogical to an innocent observer.
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>As far as I can tell, Religions are pretty much the only institutions left to staunchly defend our need to maintain a moral "red light". Elsewhere we see a permissive "drive as you please" mentality pervading society, even though there is ample evidence that it will not work. I guess we are determined to learn the hard way, again. Such is life.

I'm not so sure. All through history the 'moral truths' that determine how religions govern change. Sometimes from inside, but usually from people who were adversly affected by those moral truths. Slavery, supression of science and knowledge, and the exploitation of the environment, less developed cultures, women, children--all have been justified during the past and present by mainstream religions and the 'moral truths' that guide them.

But yes, life is all about learning the hard way.