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New 'HST' for PUTM = Hefty Sales Tax?
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05/03/2005 17:35:57
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Level Extreme
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Miscellaneous
Thread ID:
00992783
Message ID:
00993082
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11
>>>>Did you obtain this information from an attorney, or is there perhaps some reference you can point me to that makes this interpretation clear?
>>>
>>>We have received the official ruling on paper which states the affirmation. For us, this is causing a big problem as it doesn't make any sense. This is lowering our sales and we have to answer to a lot of complains since the change. You can do a search on GST Ruling for Canada and you will be able to obtain some reference phone numbers. I don't know the URL. But, a search on Google will probably be easy to find it.
>>
>>If it were easy to find on Google, I wouldn't have asked. No doubt this is harder for me than it would be for someone vaguely familiar with Canadian laws, which I am not, but I would certainly hope that one could do better than to come up with a phone number! I can see how this would be negatively impacting your business, and I'm sorry for that, because I've long regarded UT as the single most valuable online resource for VFP.
>>
>>I think it would be in your best interest to be very up front about this HST tax, rather than surprising the prospective purchaser with a cryptic reference late in the the ordering process. To me, the only familiar meaning of the HST acronym is "Hubble Space Telescope". (If I thought the money was going toward that, I'd be happy to pay it!) Not only should people be forewarned about this onerous charge, but they should be given a link to a clear explanation of its applicability to your services, since it is not the least bit obvious why it would apply. My brief attempts to search on the subject only added to my confusion about it.
>
>Canadian GST/HST overview at http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tax/business/topics/gsthst/menu-e.html
>
>I went through this issue with Michel last November. Some relevant information I dug up at the time:
>
>http://www.fin.gc.ca/hst/hst4a-e.html#BASIC4 . Specifically, memberships are discussed surrounding Example 4-21 near the bottom.
>
>I went as far as phoning the CCRA (Canada Customs and Revenue Agency) GST/HST Ruling number at 1.800.959.8287 and outlining the situation to them. They agreed that on the face of it I should not be charged full HST (only federal GST since I'm Canadian) but they were careful to say that the final authority is an official, written ruling from CCRA for the business in question, if that exists.
>
>Apparently Michel has such a written ruling, that his business somehow does not constitute "memberships" as per 4-21 cited above. Or, that the product is somehow "consumed" in New Brunswick rather than the subscriber's location. This has far-reaching tax implications - not only must he charge full HST Canada-wide, but world-wide as well. It puts him at an 8% disadvantage for other jurisdictions in Canada (all Canadians still have to pay at least 7% GST) and 15% for the US (discounting the difference in currency). Getting it changed would take either a massive and costly legal challenge, or a change to legislation (which is what I think Michel was alluding to).
>
>I don't know how you can get a refund. The closest info on international residents I found was http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tax/nonresidents/menu-e.html
>
>A faint possibility might be http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tax/nonresidents/visitors/vrpqa-e.html

Thank you very much, Al. Here is the relevant excerpt from hst4a-e.html, to which you referred:

In order to minimize the impact of the HST on the decisions of purchasers with respect to where to acquire services and intangible personal property that cross provincial boundaries, the place of supply of certain specified services and intangible personal property will be determined according to special rules. These rules will protect the competitive position of businesses located in participating provinces.

Supplies to individuals of memberships that confer rights exercisable in more than one province, including a participating province, will be regarded as supplied in the province in which the individual is resident.


I see no other interpretation than that as a US resident never having set foot in Canada, my purchase of a UT membership should be exempt from both GST and HST. I understand what you are saying, as to Michel's unfortunate predicament of having received some sort of ruling to the contrary. I wonder what other section of the tax code they might have cited to justify this conclusion, since I found nothing that could be construed to that effect. This would explain why Michel has been unable to point people to any satisfactory explanation.

The notion that individual customers might seek a refund on a tax that should never have been collected in the first place is pretty far-fetched (to put it mildly), especially lacking any more specific reference. Nor do I see that any change of legislation is called for, since the implication is already there that sales to non-residents are not taxable. You may be right that Michel's only remedy would be a costly legal challenge, but perhaps he has interpreted the ruling too broadly, as far as international sales are concerned. If the ruling is clear on this and there is no more suitable reference, I would cite verbatim the applicable text of the specific ruling in this case. For what it's worth, I'd be glad to sign a petition on Michel's behalf strenuously protesting a ruling that clearly fails to "protect the competitive position" of his business, and which appears to be in violation of fair trade agreements between the US and Canada.
Montage

"Free at last..."
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