>>The whole area is "governed" by lunatics.
>>I haven't seen Israel deliberately targetting civilians either, but they sure manage to kill/maim a high number regardless! They "target" a Hamas member and if there are kids and folk around, too bad. They fire rockets at cars in crowded streets!!! My guess is that it's done on purpose. I mean, if they feel that destroying the homes of parents of suicide bombers does something positive, they likely feel collateral damage is OK too, to 'teach' some lesson.
>>2 kidnapped Israeli soldiers has turned into 35 dead Israelis and 350 dead Lebanese. Brilliant!
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>Are you talking about Hamas, or Hezbollah? As I understand it, Hezbollah members frequently and intentionally stay in areas with large numbers of civilians, such as refugee camps. What is Israel to do? Not attack, while members of Hezbollah plan and carry out attacks on Israel?

I'm talking about the whole lot of them - Israelis, Palestinians, Lebanese.
Why do the Israelis keep repeating the same kinds of antics over and over and over again when it hasn't stopped anything? Their wall seems to have had some effect, but the levelling of home of parents of suicide bombers, the targetted assassinations of PLO or Hamas or Hezbollah leaders, the rocketing of cars on crowded streets hasn't abated the things they want to stop. What's the definition of crazy again?!?!
When a farmer sows corn he gets corn. When he sows oats he gets oats. But the same can't be said about sowing democracy. Like it or not, something motivated the Palestinians to ELECT Hamas as their government. Like it or not, something motivated the Lebanese people to ELECT 25% of their representatives from Hezbollah. Declaring those organizations as terrorist and so dealing with them as terrorists may feel good from one side, but what does it actually do to solve the problems???? All it does, best I can see, is to make those who ELECTED them even more impotent. When people feel they're in a hopeless situation they do things you and I can't imagine. And they keep doing it over and over because they have no other options to exercise.

What is Isreal to do?????? Not what they're doing, that's for sure. They've done their standard knee-jerk reaction that has been proven over and over again to do nothing towards solving the problem. They now have 35 of their own DEAD and 350+ Lebanese or visitors there DEAD. Their primitive "solution" has stirred the blood of their citizens, but it's also stirred up the whole region yet again. Stirring has been the option of choice for 58 years and it hasn't come close to bringing an end to the horrors.

The U.S. got attacked on 9/11. To use that as pretense to war with and occupy Iraq is the same kind of primitive thinking. Mankind should be well past that by now, but at the rate we're going the 21st century will set a new record for conflicts in a century.

Bombing places and killing/maiming people hasn't worked for 58 years for Israel and its not about to start working now. It should be obvious in fact that 58 years after the fact the problems are far more entrenched now than ever before.

The first thing Israel has to do is find some other technique to deal with these problems. Stop using what really does amount to terrorist tactics disguised as self-defense. Show themselves to be "bigger" than their opponents. Israel has had 98%+ of the world in their corner, but how long can that last with their indiscriminate bombings and rocketings into crowded streets? [that they say they are 'targetting' specific spots is obviously just words to placate their supporters]

You want my alternative, so here it is - TALK. Talk to Hezbollah leaders and Hamas leaders. Find the real roots of their rhetoric and actions and solve those problems. Those leaders have to talk loud and proud to keep the support of their followers. You saw President Bush feel that urge himself several time in the last 5+ years.
Once their real motivations are known they can be addressed.
There is no way that people who feel subjugated and hopeless are going to succumb to the tactics of 58 years and that is clear.

War is no solution to this problem, nor to 99% of other problems between countries.
War might get some extra Iraqi oil into U.S. cars for a few years, but if you count up the actual costs to achieve that you have to wonder at the real cost of a barrel of Iraqi oil over the next 25+ years! All that U.S. treasure spent and lives lost so that big oil can get their hands on Iraqi oil at MARKET PRICES when the actual cost of that oil is closer to $1000. per barrel. Make sense to you?

And it sure looks like your President has Iran's oil in his sights too. I wonder how much that oil will turn out to be worth in real costs?!?!

It's time that Israel's barbarity was stopped. It's time that the U.S.'s bellicose approach was changed.
I know it's a great arrangement in terms of weapons sales and all, but the U.S. should be beyond that.
Maybe when the making of weapons has been out-sourced to China the motivation will be different.


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>One of the problems I have with these kinds of debates is that people will criticize what one country/group is doing, without offering an alternative. What do you propose the Israelis should do?
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>>There's something ELSE afoot here. I suspect it has to do with Iran and Syria and things already going bad in Iraq and Afghanistan and elections coming soon in the U.S.
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>Political debates are full of speculations. Some find that to be fun. For me, I would rather deal with facts, or at least opinions from those who are perceived to be experts on a subject. Do you have anything to support your contention?