>I'm talking about the whole lot of them - Israelis, Palestinians, Lebanese.
>Why do the Israelis keep repeating the same kinds of antics over and over and over again when it hasn't stopped anything? Their wall seems to have had some effect, but the levelling of home of parents of suicide bombers, the targetted assassinations of PLO or Hamas or Hezbollah leaders, the rocketing of cars on crowded streets hasn't abated the things they want to stop. What's the definition of crazy again?!?!

I don't know why Israel levels the homes of the parents of suicide bombers. However, I believe that is done in Gaza, while I would like to limit this debate to the current conflict in Lebanon if possible.

Abated has multiple meanings, but one of them is to reduce. To answer that question, yes, I believe Israel's tactics will reduce Hezbollah's ability to kill Israelis.

Unless someone can produce some evidence otherwise, everything I have read has indicated that Hezbollah is intent on the destruction of Israel.

>When a farmer sows corn he gets corn. When he sows oats he gets oats. But the same can't be said about sowing democracy. Like it or not, something motivated the Palestinians to ELECT Hamas as their government. Like it or not, something motivated the Lebanese people to ELECT 25% of their representatives from Hezbollah. Declaring those organizations as terrorist and so dealing with them as terrorists may feel good from one side, but what does it actually do to solve the problems???? All it does, best I can see, is to make those who ELECTED them even more impotent. When people feel they're in a hopeless situation they do things you and I can't imagine. And they keep doing it over and over because they have no other options to exercise.

You seem to be arguing that labeling Hezbollah as terrorists is somehow wrong. Is that your contention? My definition of terrorism is a deliberately targeting civilians. Do you disagree?

Their situation isn't hopeless. Lebanon was doing better after the Syrians left, following the assassination of one of Lebanon's most popular political figures, allegedly by Syria. Things were going well apparently, until Hezbollah decided to cross the Israeli border, kill Israeli soldiers, and kidnap two others.

>What is Isreal to do?????? Not what they're doing, that's for sure. They've done their standard knee-jerk reaction that has been proven over and over again to do nothing towards solving the problem. They now have 35 of their own DEAD and 350+ Lebanese or visitors there DEAD. Their primitive "solution" has stirred the blood of their citizens, but it's also stirred up the whole region yet again. Stirring has been the option of choice for 58 years and it hasn't come close to bringing an end to the horrors.

No, it hasn't ended, but after all those years of defeating their enemies, 2 of them, Egypt and Jordan, decided it was a hell of a lot better to live in peace with Israel.

>The U.S. got attacked on 9/11. To use that as pretense to war with and occupy Iraq is the same kind of primitive thinking. Mankind should be well past that by now, but at the rate we're going the 21st century will set a new record for conflicts in a century.

I am not sure why you brought Iraq into the debate. If you want to talk about al-Qaida attacking the U.S. on 9/11, it would probably be more beneficial to talk about the world's response to al-Qaida, the Taliban, and Afghanistan.

>Bombing places and killing/maiming people hasn't worked for 58 years for Israel and its not about to start working now. It should be obvious in fact that 58 years after the fact the problems are far more entrenched now than ever before.

Actually it did with Egypy and Jordan. Those 2 countries decided that attacking Israel wasn't such a good idea anymore.

>The first thing Israel has to do is find some other technique to deal with these problems. Stop using what really does amount to terrorist tactics disguised as self-defense. Show themselves to be "bigger" than their opponents. Israel has had 98%+ of the world in their corner, but how long can that last with their indiscriminate bombings and rocketings into crowded streets? [that they say they are 'targetting' specific spots is obviously just words to placate their supporters]

Terrorist tactics? Please explain. Indiscriminate bombings? Please explain. As I understand it, that's where Hezbollah is. Hiding in civilian areas, such as refugee camps.

>You want my alternative, so here it is - TALK. Talk to Hezbollah leaders and Hamas leaders. Find the real roots of their rhetoric and actions and solve those problems. Those leaders have to talk loud and proud to keep the support of their followers. You saw President Bush feel that urge himself several time in the last 5+ years.

Talk? These groups have made it quite clear they want Israel wiped off the face of the map. Since Israel was created, many of its neighbors have expressed just that desire. Fortunately, a couple of them have decided just how foolish that is.

What exactly is there to talk about? Do you believe that talking solves all problems?

>Once their real motivations are known they can be addressed.

Their real motivations have been quite clear. If you are at all in doubt about what Hezbollah wants to accomplish, please explain.

>There is no way that people who feel subjugated and hopeless are going to succumb to the tactics of 58 years and that is clear.

Which is why it's nice to see a couple of them living quite peacefully with Israel.

>War is no solution to this problem, nor to 99% of other problems between countries.

And yet the only solution you have proposed so far is to talk.

>War might get some extra Iraqi oil into U.S. cars for a few years, but if you count up the actual costs to achieve that you have to wonder at the real cost of a barrel of Iraqi oil over the next 25+ years! All that U.S. treasure spent and lives lost so that big oil can get their hands on Iraqi oil at MARKET PRICES when the actual cost of that oil is closer to $1000. per barrel. Make sense to you?
>
>And it sure looks like your President has Iran's oil in his sights too. I wonder how much that oil will turn out to be worth in real costs?!?!

It's actually most of the world that is worried about Iran's nuclear capabilities, not just the U.S.

>It's time that Israel's barbarity was stopped. It's time that the U.S.'s bellicose approach as changed.
>I know it's a great arrangement in terms of weapons sales and all, but the U.S. should be beyond that.
>Maybe when the making of weapons has been out-sourced to China the motivation will be different.

Your posts continue with an anti-American bias. Would it be possible to discuss the current situation without throwing in all these non sequiturs?