Hi John,

A peaceful <s> comment on your assertion about pacifists.

The individual who was most successful in changing the course of Western civilization for the better was a pacifist, who instructed his followers to turn the other cheek, and forbade his followers from protecting him with arms.

The individual who was most successful, based on the population count in pre-democracy India, in creating a democracy where there was no history of that, was a pacifist.

The individual who had the most effect on protecting minorities from persecution and injustice in our country was arguably MLK: a pacifist.

That said, over half the Quaker men of draft age served by choice in WWII. There's probably a fine line between self-protection and domination that makes a difference, but as with all fine lines, it can easily be crossed (with a little deliberately mis-interpreted intelligence data, for example).

Hank

>>And if I may add my bit. All the people of every country should strive (try very very hard) to keep religion out of their politics and politics out of all religion. It is when religion invokes religious law into politics and/or politics tries to run religion that trouble for the average citizen begins. This rule is one of the pillars of freedom and good government. In the USA the religious right wing is having, what I think is a negative effect on elections and subsequently politics and of course, in the middle east, religion in politics is out of control in many areas.
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>>How do you stop the war in Iraq? Stop fighting the alleged infidel invaders. Set down your weapons and live a peaceful life. After a short period of time, peace will be declared and all the non-Iraqies will go home and Iraq will be Iraq again. My goodness, that seems so simplistic.
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>>Carry on.
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>And history refutes your hope. People who are pacifists, who refuse to fight for their freedom, soon lose it. We are not a free country because others want us to be. We are a free country, paid for by the blood of the good men and women who have made the ultimate sacrifice. I don't think the government needs to tell us what the official religion is, but I think part of the problem with our country today is the fact that people have tried to remove God from government. Our country was founded on Judeo-Christian values and even athiests want all the "in God we trust" they can get their hands on. All the courts open with a prayer, as do both houses of congress. There is a big difference in the government dictating how we worship, and allowing us to freely express our beliefs.