First of all, I apologise for that racial remark.
Indeed you said cultural differences.

>I do not confuse these practices with Islam any more than I confuse burning heretics with Christianity. I also know that at various times in history it has been very dangerous for moderate and learned believers to speak out in defense of their faith for fear of being persecuted by the "more righteous" That has often been true in Christianity, but since today most "Christian" nations are legally secular and heresy is seldom punished, the situation today is a little more sensitive both for the ulema and for those who would speak of Islam. Like Europe in the 16th Century, it is dangerous to speak freely in matters of faith.
>
>But I believe there is a danger of romaticising barbarism - whether it is the thug posturing of American hip-hop culture (based on lack of values) or beheading hostages on the internet (based on the distortion of a Great Truth).

>I understand warfare and fighting for a cause, and I understand that honorable men may see the world differently, but the car bombs in Baghdad, the genocide in Darfur, or an atrocity like 911 is not a righteous struggle but the thrashing of a nihilistic death-cult.
>
>I understand there is often an attempt to equate American military power with such actions, but think about it - if our goal were to see how many Iraqis or anyone else we could kill, don't you think we could kill a lot more a lot faster? I don't think there has ever been so much power in human history that was so self-restrained. ( though I have to admit I can think of many cases where even more restraint would have been a good idea )
>
>As to the Bekaa, I was there before Hezbollah and before the "civil war" and it was a rather nice place. I liked The Lebanon, and admired the unique position of Beirut in the Middle East. I always thought confessionalism was a tricky (meaning difficult) way to run a country, but until the Palestinians and Syrians decided to take the place over it was working.
>
>I have not at all meant for my posts to be inflamatory, and I certainly don't mean them to show any disrespect for very diverse cultures. I do have a problem with cultural ideas that involve a belief that God has spoken only to them and anything they do is justified by divine sanction. Truly a "Crusader" mentality - and a Jihadi mentality, and the very mentality that drives the Ultra-Orthodox settlers to believe they have more rights than non-Jews to a land they think was given them by God. Millenial ideas do not lead to compromise or solution. I think there is danger when any group believes it has a monopoly on ultimate truth.

>I believe in cultural evolution and I don't think going back to the 12th century is a step forward - whether in Christian or Muslim culture. The point I was making about some cultures being superior to other was addressed to the idea that there are still vestiges of older cultures which are still very strong and they are particularly dangerous when they gain any kind of political power.

Don't get me wrong eighter. My stomach turns upside down when I hear
or read stories (like this one) about things which happen in some Islamic countries, even more when radical clerics have absolute power, like they do in Iran or as they had in in Afganistan. But as Aganistan and Iraq teached us hopefully, that problem simply cannot be solved as those neocon 'thick tanks' sketched it.

Just like you cannot solve bad marriage/couple in your building, being drunk/stoned and hurting their chilldren - by beating couple to death.
As you very well know, it was long process putting legislation in place
that can effectively deal with that. (Social workers, foster homes etc)
(And even with this still happens)

Simillarly, imho it is only (long) Global proccess in this case that can
actually improve things. Lots of positive diplomacy (no threats!), Cross-culture exchanges, ecconomic incentives etc; folowed by gradually implementing Global bodies and legislation whisch is recognised by everybody that will have power to regulate international relations and up to reasonable measure - Internal affairs world wide.
(Civil/Human rights, global warming ,Ecology etc)

As I posted before on this forum, I do belive that this proccess has been effectively cancelled by actions taken since 2001, and will take long to reccuperate/continue.

I admitedly overreact, when I hear (or mistake) people being arrogant twds middle east, because I believe that menu of this kind of thinking was purposely scattered and implanted via biased media, above mentioned accademic/political circles with agenda and root-interests which are far away from altruistic. Consecutive actions/results (wars) really worsened global situation.
This is where all my 'beef' comes from. So again sorry if I missinterprted
your posts and insulted you in any way.


>>>Pornography, a lot of violence, homelessness ( which is very often the product of 'freedom' from forced instiutionalization of the mentally ill and chronically addicted ) are indeed terrible but they are side effects of freedom, not what the society has decided are worthy social goals.
>>
>>Or freedom from morals, real chance in life, free education, proper healt care or police enforcement all of them being worthy social goals.
>
>Okay, and where have these goals been acheived - Cyprus? The Balkans?
>The Middle East? I understand we have not acheived the ideal society, but I think that never before in human history has more prosperity been coupled with more freedom than in societies than today are secular, democratic and trace their philosophical roots to the Enlightenment. Still a long way to go, but moving - with many missteps - in the right direction.


I don't know about the rest of the Europe, but Cyprus is doing very well.
Far from perfect but much better then US I wld say.
I do not lock my car, Aldough I don't do that; You can in fact leave child to play alone or with other kids on the street or in the park. There is
publich healtcare but also private Medical care which is reasonably priced and thus accessible/affordable to most of the people.
No HOMELESS, drug addicts (aldough on rise) still nowhere to be meet or seen.
Over 75% of people own their residences, and uneployment is amongst lowest in EU.

Police is mostly doing their job, and nobody will come to solicit drugs to your tenage child. There are cases but they are dealt with.
Man, people hit jail for 6 months - straight from the airport for having couple of joints in their possesion (I ABSOLUTELY ADMIRE IT!).

And weather you believe it or not, I do believe that this is because of the fact that this country resistantly kept some traditional sociaty/family values, rather then blindly adopting western styles/trends.

There4 I cannot really blame Iran or other Islamic ountries for being
resistent to western values/practices. I do blame them for being
problematic when it comes to human rights and nature of power, but other then that what can you possibly say ? Do they attack anybody militarily ? No. (Do we ?) - all they wanna do is keep their own turf (and some oil if possible).
If they want to live in deeply religious islam society, I wld respect that and let them do so, for as long as they don't bother anybody else - until people there naturally and in big numbers, start aiming for next level in developing their society.

In the meanwhile it would hv been good if Civilised World via UN had enough credits and also legal/actual powers to crack down on human rights abuses
there.
What is happening now (DemocracyDeliveryBussiness) is simply all wrong.
Huh, this ended up being realy long message so that is all for now.
Peace :)


>>
>>Peace :)
>>
>>>
>>>>>>http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=3142288&page=1
>>>>>
>>>>>So much for cultural relativism. Suttee, clitoridectomy, honor killings, bride burning, gay-bashing and wilding are pretty good arguements for the idea that some cultures, while imperfect, are, in fact, superior to others.