>Of course I respect your view. As usual you bring up great points.
>I think you've convinced yourself that the unborn child is not human. I believe it is... what else can it be?

Nothing yet. Tissue. Human to be, maybe.

>Remember, Nazi Germany convinced themselves that the Jewish people were sub-humans.... I hope this doesn't offend anyone.

And so did many groups convince themselves at some point that any non-members are sub-human (applies to many a monotheistic religion, ancient Romans, conquistadors...). It's so easy to found a club, claim exclusivity and then assign any set of properties to the non-members.

However, I simply think that humans-to-be are not humans yet. Simple as that.

>So when a expectant mother says "I'm carrying a child." do say to her "No. You're carrying an sub-human thing."? :)

You say "good for you". Do you go around and fix everyone's logical errors? If she feels it's a child - well, she's expectant, and she's expecting to see it soon, as it will be when it is born, not as it is at the moment. She's looking into the future - that's how I understand the word "expect".

>I said this before in other thread, I can live with early term abortion. It's late term abortion that gives me grief.

Same here - late term is just dangerous and does bring up ethical questions. But the point of contention is the campaign to stretch this to any abortion in general, and to leave women without a choice. And that was the main question: should people be free to choose whether and when to have children, or not? Sounds like a no-brainer to me, but somehow it became an issue.

>How did we get on this? We were talking about capital punishement.... Oh well drift...

Yes you did. You added it in message #1289895 - probably the capital punishment wasn't enough ;).