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>>>>Look these are all macho talks... You'll be talking a lot different when such thing happened to you.
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>>>Walter, argue the facts. Leave out the insults.
>>
>>Argue what facts?? You cannot argue facts. You can only argue conclusions..
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>No, you can argue the facts as you interpret them and as you find them to support your position.
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>>About insults... these pro gun arguments are a huge insult to the human race. The fact is that without guns there would not be any gun-deaths.
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>A useless tautology if ever I saw one.
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>>The more guns are avialable, the more gun deaths. There is not much to deny here.
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>The argument is a false one confusing correlation with causation. It takes the form of X happened and then Y happened. Therefore X was the cause of Y.
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>Death by gun is obviously a gun related death (tautology) but the reason there was a crime committed, regardless of the weapon used, has another cause. You say the cause is gun availability. I say the crime has socio-economic causes.

That abslolutely is a very important factor. But your overlooking the following.
1. Using the argument that guns make things safer, in the least is an argument not to do anything about socio-economic causes. Which in the end will cause things to get even worse.
2. Gun are far more dangerous than the alternatives. Guns are range weapons. You can kill from a distance. There is no skill or force needed to kill someone. If you take away guns, knives will be used more often in crimes. Since knives are non-ranged weapons (unless you throw them) they are far less deadly.

Look I can see things in SA, being totally different as it lacks the governmental bodies to secure the security needed for the citizens to feel safe. But how on earth can the most powerfull country in the world claim that they need guns to keep their society safe. so enlighten me, on why the safety of european countries cannot not be reached in the US ?

Why is the US incapable of not getting as safe as up here??

Enlighten me,

What use has the human race for guns? To kill eachother .... and that is not proving to have any respect for human life.

Great...