>>>>>I'm pretty sure Nicholas and I are in similar places on this, which is that kids earn increased trust as they get older. The problems with watching over a kid too closely are that a) they don't develop their own judgment; and b) it can lead to sneakiness.
>>>>
>>>>Hey, let's split some hairs. Some kids lose your trust, as they grow older, and spin their way toward prison....
>>>
>>>Is everything starting to look like a nail, John? ;-) I thought this was a discussion between involved parents about parenting approaches. It would surprise me if any of the participants is worried about their kids going to prison.
>>
>>Not at all. I see many screws.... Just making the point, that there IS a dark side. Not everyone has a child who is destined to become a PhD, hence the criminal population.
>
>Sure, but serious question, John. You've surely dealt with more criminals than anyone else here. What percent of them would you say had caring, involved parents, who would have even participated in a discussion like this one?
>
>Tamar

If I haven't seen more criminals/crime, someone is in very bad shape! I would say less that 2%. But, I thought we were talking about people in general. Families in the hood aren't families, as we know them. They are generally comprised of a grandmother, several female mothers, and a bunch of kids who cannot be or are not controlled. The mother, may be working a couple of low paying jobs, or she may be selling herself, or out doing crimes like shoplifting for the gang. Talk about thriving on chaos! It's the proverbial "rough row to hoe"

The issue is so complex that no single solution will fix it. The government programs need to be retooled to stop encouraging single mothers. Schools need to teach, not be caregivers, and the black males need to "man up." They are the ones who can fix this, by being fathers instead of sperm donors. For that to happen, hip hop, gangstah rap, thuggery, gangs, etc have to become a bad thing in the black community. Calling your girlfriend "my bitch" is normal in the hood right now. Would you have tolerated that? I doubt it, so the females have a hand in turning this around too. I don't think us "white boyz" can have much impact, other that trying to be supportive of programs that are measured, and tweaked when the intent doesn't deliver the desired results.