Plateforme Level Extreme
Abonnement
Profil corporatif
Produits & Services
Support
Légal
English
LA Times turns?
Message
De
23/08/2010 18:38:30
 
 
Information générale
Forum:
Politics
Catégorie:
Autre
Titre:
Divers
Thread ID:
01477824
Message ID:
01478057
Vues:
38
>>>>>>>>>Not just angry white people but angry middle and older aged white people. Look up the demographics and get back to me, OK?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>And why, exactly, does that make their concerns or anger invalid? If one were to characterize a protest as "just a bunch of angry young black people" would that make their concerns not worth considering?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>If you have issues with their issues, fine, but you are arguing against *who* they are, not what they believe.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I am arguing against what they believe. It sure aren't the principles this country was founded on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This country was founded upon the notion of less government, less taxes, and free enterprise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Obama and the democrats are diametrically opposed to all three.
>>>>>
>>>>>That is a complete misunderstanding of our founding principles. Our founders put a lot of thought into what form of government the new country should have. There were differences between them, Jeffersonians vs. Haliltonians, but none of them believed we should just run around like hillbillies. They established a very strong government with three branches, federal powers and state powers, on and on.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Again you evade the original premise. Reread: This country was founded upon the notion of less government, less taxes, and free enterprise, it has nothing to do with a strong federal government. It originally had to do with States Rights of Sovereignty (sp?) until the first of the progressives and libs usurped states rights and formed big government to take care of everyone. Quit reading your history books the way you want, read what's written...
>>>
>>>We definitely disagree about the origins of the U.S. If we were founded on the principle of less government why did the founders establish so much of it? They intended it.
>>
>>You really weren't paying attention in history class. the strength of the American Constitution was the set of limits it placed on the government and on each branch in counterbalance to the others. Previously in most governments it had been assumed all power flowed from the top down. we got a system designed for power to come from the bottom up. "derived from the just consent of the governed" the size of government is a much much more recent phenomenon than the founding. Hamilton was considered a big government monarchist for even wanting a national bank or a standing army. BIg government is a very modern concept - with roots that hark more to Bismark than Jefferson or Adams.
>
>Bismarck. And didn't he come along a little later?

1860s in Prussia and his statist positions were considered the beginning of the "progressive" movement. Social Security, minimum wage, kindergarten and a lot of public education ideas were pioneered in Bismark's Prussia and American and European intellectuals were influenced very strongly. the American progressive movement (think Woodrow Wilson) and fascism (in its first, truest sense) were based on the "scientific" use of industrial might, corporatism and state planning to accomplish utopian goals. It was the idea that the state knows best because it has "experts" and "studies" and the whole society should be pulling in the same direction.

However worthy some of its aims or even successful some of the implementation, it is a concept that the founding fathers of 100 years earlier would have found quite strange. (though it may have developed more traction with the French revolutionaries)

It is the basic difference between the French and English Enlightenment, and the ramifications played out through the 20th century and are playing out every day in our politics and the way we see ourselves in relation to the state.


Charles Hankey

Though a good deal is too strange to be believed, nothing is too strange to have happened.
- Thomas Hardy

Half the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don't mean to do harm-- but the harm does not interest them. Or they do not see it, or they justify it because they are absorbed in the endless struggle to think well of themselves.

-- T. S. Eliot
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.
- Ben Franklin

Pardon him, Theodotus. He is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature.
Précédent
Répondre
Fil
Voir

Click here to load this message in the networking platform