I think when someone that graduates from college with an 8th grade reading level there is a problem with the college. If someone is that far behind then it's the fault of the college for passing them.

So let me get this straight. If a student does not become well educated from attending a university, it is the university and the professors who are 100% responsible because this is a result of their failure to teach. You believe that the student bears no responsibility for applying himself to his lessons and actually learning something. Is that right?

It's also up to the teacher to teach & not pass students who can't even read. Sure the students need to study and learn - but if they don't then the teachers shouldn't pass them

Actually, we agree on this one. However, the teachers' union is a large and powerful one. Because of the union, teachers get raises based on years of service and not on merit. Because of tenure, even if a teacher is incompetent, they still cannot be fired without going through major battles which could go on for years. Because of the union, we are stuck with the most mediocre and incompetent teachers.

like your college grad friend with an 8th grade reading level.

I never said that I had friends with college degrees and 8th grade educations. I would not surround myself with such stupid people. I said that I knew people like that. Is everyone you know a personal friend of yours? Is that why you assumed that I was talking about one of my friends? Sorry, I am a lot more discriminating than that.

I take a look at my girlfriends 14 year old daughters school books (private school) and her friends 14 year old school books (public school that is ify). There is NO WAY you're going to convince me that both are getting the same education and one is not superior to the other.

I graduated from a public school and I am doing just fine. Then again, I was a voracious reader and was reading Nietzsche and Jean-Paul Sartre for pleasure when I was a junior in high school.

That's not what I was saying at all. I was saying that some schools offer better education that others. Of course people can educate themselves - but that doesn't change the fact that some schools are better than others.

All of your posts seem to indicate that you believe that whether or not one is well educated depends on how prestigious the educational institution is. Now you are changing your tune and saying that one can educate oneself? So is this self-education inferior to an education that one gets in an institution? You cannot have it both ways.

hmmmm...we'll have to disagree I guess. Not sure how you determined that B.S. degree from University of Idaho is just as good as a law degree from Harvard.

Good in what sense? Good in that a degree from Harvard with impress people more because it is from Harvard? Or good in the sense that the student became well-educated as a result of the experience? If it is the latter, it is my contention that it depends more on the student than the institution. However, I am a big believer in personal responsibility....