>>>>>For my ears, the french r is pronounced somewhere at the root of the tongue, not the tip (like most european ones are), so it's not so distinct (or rolled, as we call the english r), but I can clearly recognize when it's pronounced.
>>>>
>>>>I see the difference between 'crois' and 'croissant' as 'night' and 'day' :)
>>>
>>>Seeing it is easy. But do you hear it? :)
>>
>>Tamar is hearing the exact sound I am; so she and I were on the same page. Lutz was the first who correctly brought up the notion of nasal 'r' and not guttural 'r' that all the "experts" were hearing :)
>
>But listening to the Google translate page, I do hear more than the "w" I cited. And, in fact, I did say "something like 'kw'." I think nasal is the key here.
>
>I also think that Michel wasn't saying it was guttural, just that it was heard. To him, the distinction between the "r" in "crois" and the "r" is "Pierre" is a given.
>
>Tamar

An 'r' following a consonant and an 'r' following a vowel are pronounced differently in many languages, but dramatically so in French.
I saw that clearly when I heard a Parisian cab driver pronounce 'metro' (train station)