>>>I can agree with that. However, when you and John and Obama speak about this, IMHO, you tend to minimize the efforts of the individual in favor of glorifying the collective. That is what I have a problem with.
>
>In fairness, words like "glorify" and "collective" are entirely yours as well as dripping with loaded meaning. Nobody says these things except you, Marcia.
>

I actually missed this line until Marcia pointed it out. JR, I've used those terms many times. And I know that others who pop in and out of the UT who hold similar views.