>>>... but imagine if it was made amoral to challenge findings like those, and perhaps you'll share my unease at intolerance of dissent wrt C19 vaccines. Science is all about challenge, or else it's actually Cult.
>>
>>I guess the impasse is caused by something deeper: Current PC thinking has dissolved the bond between rights and (responibilities and/or results).
>>
>
>What does PC stand for in this context?

Political Correctness, to be more exact the tendency to demand something without regard for consequences or other peoples wishes.

>>I see no reason to force vaccination, as vaccination does not inhibit spread to a large degree.
>
>I have yet to see evidence that vaccination does not inhibit spread. It doesn't eliminate spread, that's true. Vax'ed can get & spread COVID, but do they spread it for as long as unvax'ed? Do they show symptoms sooner? Do they recover sooner? I believe the answer to those questions is "No", "Yes", "Yes". So if you take the limited (but not zero) immunity provided by vaccination and combine it with a shorter asymptomatic phase and shorter transmission window, that suggests a significant limitation on spread.

See embolded word - also I now believe that behaviour will only change when certain threshold (# of death per capita and day, free hospital or ICU beds) has been left behind.

>>IMO society has to accept the decision of unvaccinated to risk death soon after infection -
>>if overloaded health system needs to be avoided, couple "non-vaccination" with possible triage in advance.
>>No need to make decision easy to avoid:
>>- add analogous hoopla needed for getting an abortion.
>>- add escrow for hospital cost
>>
>>but afterwards stay out of the decision, test everybody until you declare it endemic.

>I don't understand this comment about abortion. Maybe it's because you're in Germany. In the US numerous states have imposed onerous and arbitrary restrictions on abortion seekers and providers. None of it is for medical or societal reasons. It's entirely religious. I'm not sure if making sick people wait 48 hours before admittance to a hospital, forcing them to get an ultrasound before treatment, or asking their parents for permission make sense.

On abortion: IMO unless it is from rape or for serious medical reasons, the process should change behaviour to give more attention to birth control in advance, not as an afterthought.

In this context: make avoiding vaccination unpleasant / the harder path to take, show the consequences like lung cancer pics on cigarette packs so nobody can claim afterwards he did not realize possible outcome.

My opinion on religious views trying to influence other peoples minds or actions would put me in danger of ban from here...

>There's no legal framework for the US gov't to force people to escrow for future medical expenses. You'd need an act of Congress to pass a tax on unvaccinated (ala Medicare/FICA) and it would almost certainly be tied up in courts for the next 1-2 years (making it a moot point).

I realize there are differences making such things harder in the states - even here I'd repackage it as general hike due to new virus and offer bonus reductions for vaccination similar to bonus programs for cancer screening, sports and other behaviours. Probably harder to strike down in court.

>All of which is to say that there's a straightforward mechanism for encouraging and rewarding pro-social behavior (like masking, vaccination, etc.) and that is via public health mandates. We do not need to rely on rube-golberg mechanisms that are inefficient and impractical to implement. The shame of all this is that our public health officials have been effectively dissuaded from doing what's necessary. Half-measures taken to appease anti-government reactionaries made this pandemic longer and more painful than it needed to be (and didn't appease anyone).

Public health mandates for vaccination IMO are murky with C19 if applied to all age groups.
The very ***personal*** risk/reward ratio is not clear in teens, twens and thirty-somethings in typical cases.
IMO arguing for vaccination mandate in health services without a balancing mandate for 60+ ages is already wrong.
Even minimal death risk for teens and twens due to vaxx side effects to lessen the risk of others is uncalled for.

The group inertia will give the virus enough space and time to proliferate - it will stay with us (and some animals).
Gov should offer free vaccination as choice and (better) data, esp. on Long Covid.
Most have enough control via vaccination and life style.
Mask mandates on public transportation or testing for flights or border crossing is ok in my book of rules ;-)
In the long run I would prefer to allow shop owners and airlines to set and enforce "house rules".
Customers are free to take their biz elsewhere if they don't accept those house rules.