>Ed,
>
>Well, look... All I was trying to do was remind everyone about not ..er.. verbally relieving one's self in public. *bg*
>

Doug, you're right, a bit of greater sinsitivity and gentler wording of things may well be in order, but I think that someone needs to stand up and affirm JVP's got a right to present opinions and interpretations of where FPA is going and state his fears, frustrations and concerns over FPA content and goals from a unique standpoint. FPA can respond, and for that matter, raise their own issues with what's wrong with JVP's presentation of issues, priorities and effectiveness in acting in concert with FPA to address FPA's readership.

John, having critiqued, gone inside, and failed to make what he saw as needed changes, earned the right to his opinion, both of the technicl merits of the specific articles he critiqued, and general editorial goals. Jim complains about many things - in some cases, his critique is valid. Other people also critique problems with products and services in the VFP world. George Tasker saw a problem with the information describing the Foxtools library. His response was his Extended Foxtools Help File. Tamar Granor and Ted Roche saw fundamental problems in the docs for VFP in general - their response was "Hacker's Guide", one of the indispensible developer references for our community. Erik Moore's eView. SDT. Visual MaxFrame. Codebook. Obj2BMP. Lots of really, really good books, services, add-ons, freeware, shareware and commercial extensions that make development in VFP a productive environment. Coupled with a strongly cohesive user community that strives to help its members bootstrap and grow, we have a great developer community.

There are people who bitch and moan and complain and do nothing beyond that. I do not value their contributions in the same way as the contributions of a Jim Booth, who, IMO, exemplefies the best qualities of the VFP community as a whole at many levels, mentor, author, lecturer, investigator of the bizarre, a good friend and someone who's put a great deal into building the spirit of the VFP online community. There are technogeeks who refuse to accept the limits of the base language, people who are adept at helping people over the basic humps of settling into VFP, OO, C/S, UI and new technoligies that are going to climb right up and smack up across the face and force us to reevaluate the tools and platforms we've assumed will last until we've been in the ground taking a dirt nap. JVP is in this last category; his style may be raw and ungeneel, but at the root, he makes you think, and if there's something he's latched onto and fanatical about, at a minimum, it's time to sit up, smell the skunk cabbage, and look at this new kind of FM that's worth his attention. His instincts are good, and his base tenacity and raw intellect will ensure that he comes away with the core concepts mastered and strong understanding of applicability and strategic placement.

I'll keep listen to JVP's rants with awe and appreciation.

>Good Lord knows I've started my share of verbal spats over the years. And, truth be known, I don't really mind a good donnybrook every so often. What was that movie with John Wayne and Maureen O'Hara? "The Thin Man?", (please feel free to correct this - I'm not a big movie fan) where he had been a boxer who killed someone in the ring and had gone to Ireland? Ended up in one whale of a fight with everyone taking bets? Nothing wrong with a good fight - let's just try and remember to keep it clean. *bg*
>
>That's all, really...
>
>Personally, I think that you and JVP in particular have been quite generous in your support of other developers and I appreciate it. I just wish all 'o youse guys wern't as stubborn as I am. *g*
>
>Best,
>
>DD
>
>
>>>I'm going to call you three "The Plutonium Boys" because when you all get together you seem to blow up.
>>>
>>>*g*
>>>
>>>Why in the world haven't you fellows figured out how to tolerate each other, at least publicly? Doesn't mean you have to like each other but for goodness sakes, let's remember that we're ambassadors for our craft. Nothing like a good family fight now and then but let's all try and remember that before we are Developers we are human. Let's try and so act.
>>>
>>
>>I don't feel that JVP's right to express an opinion should be any more limited than my own. Issues of civility aside, JVP is fully entitled to his opinions of what's going on at FPA, more informed by a wide margin than myself or Jim, and I was being very simple and up front; I value JVP's opinions, and notion of the direction of VFP, the VFP community, and the publications he's been writing for for some time more than Jim's. I was perhaps out of line in pointing out that a deceased, yappy toy poodle that literally died because it chased cars for years and finally caught one has at least as much value to me as Jim's POV here. John knows his motivations. John knows what's been said and planned. His opinions on the matters at hand hold weight and value. Jim's do not, and his annoyance at John's persistence and tenacity of criticizing a periodical he's read and worked on from several standpoints is infinitely more annoying than any abrasive qualities of JVP's critique.
>>
>>I largely agree with John's perceptions of the quality and value of specific coverage of the topic of VB from the VFP standpoint in FPA.
>>
>>As to Developers as humans, clearly, John is proceeding to devolve into a lower life form by entering the legal profession. OTOH, he'll have unique and insightful input into legal issues and developer issues. I wish him well in this endeavor. He's striving to develop a set of learning skills and thought processes quite foreign to the approaches built in being an effective developer and analyst. And his argumentative nature makes him a natural as a litigator.
>>
>>God help us when he dies - we know who'll be writing the docket management package for use in the nether regions when he finally buys the farm!
>>
>>As to myself and JVP, I don't remember having a serious go round with him, but I'm sure some day we will, and you'll get to see a battle of wits where both opponents are well armed...