>We need a challenge: Can a developer, without a frame tool, and expert skills, build a faster, more seamless and powerful interface than a journeyman with a frame tool?

Terry you have completely missed the point. A framework is not just a tool, it's a collection of classlibs, prgs, and sometimes utilities built in a fashion that encourages a substantial amount OO reuse (not VB style copy/paste reuse) and adheres to a standardized methodology. And a developer with "expert skills" has most likely built his own personal framework, or in the least mastered one of the more comprehensive frameworks on the market or extended one of the less intrinsic products of wit a good deal of personal extras.

Since you dont know what your talking about, let me give you an analogy of what your saying... Can a master carpenter build house with tools and a blue print? Sure. Would he though? Of course not, why do you think they call him a master carpenter.