Cetin,

>>I never heard that one, nor do I recall this one was applied in the last war(s). The only thing I know it technical still exists in Belgium. I can't of any case where someone was legally put to death in europe during a democratic regime (so not counting dictators) for the last few decades. The only country in europe (I know of) where the death penalty could be applied when neccesary is Turkey. But since Turkey is not a full member of europe.....

This was by no means an attempt to attack Turkey. In fact I've been in Turkey last year and find it a beatifull country with nice people and me and my wife certainly want to go back some day. I'm in no way reffering to the political tension between Europe and Turkey and the upcoming membershit of therkey to the EU.

>'But since Turkey is not a full member of europe.....' and what ? It's a shame of Europe not Turkey.

I'm not sure what you're sayig here. AFAIK the death penalty in Turkey is applied very rarely (maybe you can say otherwise). My statement was that in the democratical countries of Europe the death penalty has not been applied a in a few decades. The only country i'm not sure about is Turkey, as I know that it was mentioned within a few trials regarding the murder of a few dutch tourists and the trail of Ocalan (I forgot the spelling, sorry). Further I said that Turkey IFAIK is half Asia (or middle east?) half europe. I may be wrong about this one.

>Without knowing the facts about Turkey pls do not attack to Turkey. In Turkey too it exists but can you tell me one applied ?

As I said earlier, Technically even in Belgium it still exists (at least until a few years ago), but has not been applies for decades.

> Also a death penalty executed legally or illegally is a death penalty in the end and it would cut few decades to few years maybe.

>Be fair otherwise in turn I might start to ask why Netherlands protects terrorists.

Come again ?? In what way are the Netherlands protecting terrorist? I assume you're reffering to the PKK that have a office here in the Netherlands. That issue was discussed by our government and they could not find a way the prohibit this. None of the members are registered as criminals, nor is the political side of the PKK registered as a criminal organisation. IOW by our law we have no means to forbid this organisation in any way, unless there are criminal events proven that were directly related to terroristical events. In our country freedom of speech is a valuable right, as counts for many european countries, like Germany, Belgium, GB and others. Our country holds many, many different curltures and ethnical groups, each with their own community and political groups. The dutch government can't possibly take sides in each conflict all over the world and take action on the people on the bad side in our country. With that many people of different cultural backgrounds it is not that easy to control these one. Here do live about hundreds of thousand of turks of which only a fraction is criminal or maybe terrorist. There are other cutural and ethnical groups where the problem is far greater.

It seems that our government has another definition of the word terrorist as yours, but maybe it is because there isn't an extradition treaty between our countries, but that's a matter of both our governments and not only ours: The same problem we have with many other non-european countries..

>You can't show just one country pure of humanity guilts in Europe.
You're right. Each of the european countries has made it faults (at least in the recent past) Every now and then there are issues (almost always from the past) that show that we have the same guilts. Only last week I read in thenetherlands the salary of women is 7% lower than of man. It is also know that minorities can't get a job at important places just as easely as a native dutchman. Racesism ? humanity guilts ?? In a sense yes, but you've to draw a border. It seems that our level of huminity in our country is regarded higher than in Turkey and that europe has a problem with that. I don't know any details in this matter and don't think this issue is worth discussion. It simply hangs on culture and as cultural thing are not easely dicussable; let's forget this one.

>Despite many attacks to my country I try to keep politics off UT. Don't force me to do the reverse.

You're welcome in any constructive discussion. If you wish off line. B.t.w. I've not seen any attack to your country (at least not lately).

Walter,