Mike,

Say.. When this is all over all you going to let me buy you a soda or dinner or something? <g>

>>>You are also confident that deep down I believe what you believe, and it isn't.
>>Not at all.
>
>Didn't you say "Now, if they really do not believe this why do they react they way they do rather than just let it pass?? Simple.. They know 'deep down' it's true." So which one is it?

For me it's confidence.

For others it appears to me to be a conflict in what they 'know' intuitively and what they have taken as a part of their belief system.

I think you confused my reaction with my assertions regarding the reactions of some others.

If someone else is entirely confident where they are then I'd like to know their reasoning - if they wish to tell me.

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>>that's something you'll need to learn how to do I guess.
>
>I'll put that on my list...

<g>

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>>I'm not asking you to 'tie yourself' to anything Mike. I'm just interested in finding out if you realize that in spite of your loud protests to the contrary to do indeed have a set of core beliefs.
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>I have no spiritul beliefs. If you don't accept that I'm not going to continue this thread. Call it a win if you want, but the fact that you keep telling me I do is pathetic.

Look.. you seem to be missing a very simple point as a result of what you keep telling me I'm telling you.

Once again..

A belief system doesn't have to be one that is 'spiritual' in nature - at least on the surface. You could 'believe' in the power of a coconut <g>. But, it is a belief system. It's what you believe in. It could be "I don't know right now" but that would then define your belief system. In that case the word is 'agnostic'.

Is it intrinsically 'spiritual? I don't think so necessarily but I do think it will impact the spiritual portion of anyone holding it.

Now, probably an area where we might disagree is whether or not man has a spiritual 'side'. I believe he does and you may not. That issue we'll just have to agree to disagree - but it does affect the way I think - it's a part of my belief system. If that gives you fits I guess you'll just have to learn to accept me for where I am.

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>>That's two separate issues I'd think..
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>I think so too.
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>>Well, maybe it's because I see no reason to use words like that whe I converse with others ... For me it really boils down to respect for my listener. I'd be very embarrassed to inadvertantly offend someone. Perhaps that's the difference..
>
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>I asked for a logical reason. If respect is the reason, why would anyone be logically offended?

Well, for me, demonstrating respect or taking what I consider proper and necessary steps to try and avoid disrespect is a logical conclusion I've made as a result of where I am at business wise. It makes a lot of sense to try and treat veryone I deal with on a professional level with respect and I'd hate to lose a multi-million dollar sale over a mis-spent word.

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>>Well, belief is only a strong word if it's defined strongly.
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>A belief is something you believe in. Whats wrong with only having an idea or a guess?

Nothing at all in the sens that that os where you're at. Regardless that is the definition of your current belief system - which has been my point all along.

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>>Even the Nihilist believes in nothing as though it were something. <g>
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>But I don't believe in nothing. I don't belief in not having beliefs, I just don't have them at the moment. Which I've said.

Understood, and, while you may not actually take me at my word, I do respect where you're at.

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>>Ahh.. Interesting.. Am I correctly understanding you that you would like to change them but that you somehow feel 'helpless' to so do?
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>Not change them, SHOW them the part of the world or life that they have blocked out because they so strongly believe in something else.

Not sure where you're going with this. In my case I've been down more than my fair share of figurative 'blind alleys'. Remember that story about the Rabbi?? I've made more than my fair share of bad decisions. <g>

Maybe at this point in your life experience-wise you haven't realized that others have done what you may just be discovering now for yourself for the first time...

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>>No, but that wasn't the point Mike. The point was that I had gone through the process - something you're really fighting here it seems. <g>
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>Not anymore.
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>>Your call. Not a wise one but I respect your right to make it.
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>Who cares, if I change my mind I change my mind since I don't have deep beliefs about it.

Well, thanks for your thoughts.