>I will start by noting you have now inserted "organized" into the discussion which is a narrowing of the issue.

No, that's not a change. I made the point early in our discussion that the issue was prayer led by staff and that personal prayer is permitted.

<< I would ask what you should do when the vast majority do want to pray in the morning? >>

Well, my immediate reaction is that they ought to do it before they come to school. Nothing stops a student from praying at home or going to church before school

More to the point, in our system of government, it's irrelevant that the majority want to do this if it violates the constitution. This has nothing to do with offending people.

As you've pointed out several times in this thread, a lot of what's in the Constitution, especially as regards the rights of the individual, is specifically to avoid the tyranny of the majority.

Right now, or at least in the past few weeks, it's safe to say that the majority of Americans don't want people to talk about pacificism. There's a general objection to the idea that going to war may not be a good thing. (I don't want to get into that issue here, btw - I'm just using it as an example.) However, our Constitution says that free speech is protected, so regardless of the wishes of the majority, those people who would promote pacificism are entitled to have their say.

It's the same with religion. It may be the case that the vast majority of students want to start the school day with a prayer (frankly, I doubt it, but I'll accept your premise for the moment). The Constitution says that the government shall not establish a religion. So, the real question we're addressing here is whether authority figures running prayer in schools is an establishment of religion. The Supreme Court says it is; I agree with them.

Having said all that, I still don't see what rights any child loses by not having organized prayer in school.

>Having said that to answer your question directly, I don't suppose they are but I would ask you how they are by making provision for those who wish to organize prayer in public schools? Mind you, I am not suggesting that any child should be forced, only that those who so wish may organize themselves up to and including using thee facilities.

I can't speak in general, but I am aware of "Christian clubs" and other organizations that are using school facilities.

>The problem I see is underlying the whole issue here and it's the gradual secularizing of society and from that pov I do indeed think that the rights of that child are being violated.

I think I read recently that church membership in this country is higher than ever, but I may be wrong about that.

Tamar