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>I guess I just don't disagree with your assertion that the only way to know it's done right is to do it yourself. Trust me, I know I'm not alone when I say that I'm always analyzing Kevin's code.

Hmm.. you can analyze others and see if it is the "right" way. Oh .. btw there is a right way.. it is my way.. :D <g>
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>>I not questioning the completeness or usablility of MM in particular. I'm questioning the whole concept of using commerical frameworks, so I think you are really missing the point. I think the benefits of knowledge gained, flexibility, and customiziablity outweight the speed of using a commercial framework, which you have to learn anyways. So why not just learn the .NET Framework?
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>>Learn about how to build the blocks, so instead of being forced to pick one of the 3 available houses.. you can make your own, your way.
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>>Morgan
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>In my original post, I remarked that most of us have delved into the "guts" of the frameworks' underlying language -- both of VFP, and now .NET -- and we found that the knowledge gained, flexibility, and customizability you refer to are not at odds with the speed of development, at least not for those of us who keep these things in the forefront of our progamming mind.
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>FWIW, I agree with you that any framework can be a crutch, and commercial ones are more likely to produce that result as they tend to be more abstract. But again, any developer who doesn't peek under the hood to find out what's really going on and analyze/critique/learn it probably wouldn't be motivated enough to develop a framework of their one anyway!
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>BTW, I think your analogy misses the point of a framework. Mere Mortals, like any framework, is not a house. It provides a highly customizable foundation upon which you can rapidly build a house to your business' clients' specifications.
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>---J

You make a good point, if a developer isn't looking under the hood. They probably don't have the motivation to write there own.

The only problem with a foundation( commercial framework) that you didn't make, what is you want an house with no right angles ? :D I always have.

Morgan