Hi Kevin:

>- Precisely where is it written that this is a 'pro' Fox board???...it's a Fox board.

Its not written anywhere that I know of. Its purely a personal opinion of mine that if you take JVP out of the picture, most participants in this forum are enthusiastic about VFP and come here to get the latest on the product, get help with their problems and provide help to other VFP developers when they can. Most participants here are not adorned with rose coloured glasses thinking that everything is well in the garden. Most VFP developers are realists and accept that the market for Fox has changed over the years but then again, so have many other markets too eg., Visual Basic. My basic feeling is that this is generally a positive place for Fox developers to hang out and JVP is in a minority of one who ritually and incessently choses to take a negative approach to VFP rather than a positive approach. When I say "pro", I mean, in effect "positive". JVP could take a leaf out of Rick Strahl's book. Rick is a person (who I do not personally know, other than meeting him on a Double Impact tour in Reading UK 1999 and Frankfurt Devcon 2002) who realises his position in the Fox world as a "leading light", has crossed over into the .NET arena, appears to realise the strenghts and weaknesses of both old (VFP) and new tools (.NET) and yet does not feel the need to disparage the Fox market because its star is waning. The Fox still has its place and a viable market even if it is outside of the larger enterprise.

I have seen Rick post messages that attest to the fact that there is still a long way to go with .NET in order to get it really right (understandably so) and, he still isn't deriving any real income from his .NET adventures despite his awesome investment in time learning these tools.

>I think it's extremely topical for JVP to bring up relevant points regarding VFP marketing, etc.

Its old news though. How many times can you keep telling Fox developers what they already know, understand and accept?

>It just so happens that he brings up points that many do not like to hear.

Sure, Fox developers don't like to hear that MS have no intentions to develop the tool beyond its existing user base, despite the fact that as Fox developers, we realise that Fox has strengths that could be utilised in other areas outside MS' current focus. However, whether people don't like to hear these things, they generally accept them and don't need JVP banging on and on about the same thing every time there is a soapbox to stand on.

>then I began to notice that John was right on many areas.

Yes, but as many have already said, the things he has "predicted" have not taken much insight at all. Some other things like his pro-VB and COM rants would have left many in a difficult position had they abandoned VFP to re-write in VB to find it truly became a "dead" language to have to start again with VB.Net to wonder when the next MS paradigm shift will occur. On his assessment that Fox is dead, he is still wrong. Fox is very much alive despite the fact that it will never be the centre of MS thinking but then again, it never has been and 10+ years later, most VFP developers are looking forward to the release of Europa. I know I am.

>- Perhaps the most insightful statement came when you told Bonnie that because she is strong in C#, she is at less risk in her career than many Fox developers. Of course, I agree with that statement. But you do realize that you are supporting one of JVP's bigger arguments.

You say this like JVP is the only person in this forum who can work out that the more skills you have, the better off you are. Clearly, if you can develop proficiency in more than a single tool or language the more opportunities there will likely be. This simple tenet does not require a crystal ball to work out. My main point to Bonnie is that she is a C# MVP. She is clearly a bright girl and her expertise has been acknowledged by MS. Not everyone will get to her standard so, she is in a far less risky position than many VFP developers are. It might be worth considering the fact that many VFP developers did not originate from a programming background or have a computer science degree. They were business people who were able to harness the power of Fox to solve their own business problems and gradually became Fox developers. Their lack of a formal computing background and possibly their age (given the time frame that Foxbase/FoxPro and VFP place you in) possibly make it far more difficult to simply drop a tool they have learned over many years and launch into a whole new world, just like that.

I have no beef with you Geoff, whatsoever. But, JVP, from his computer oriented "Fox Guru Status" background, his involvement with larger enterprises and his, I assume imminent departure from this industry should be a little more understanding of the fears of others who are in a massively different position to him and really can do without someone of his, albeit ex-profile, being generally negative on a Fox "positive" board.

There are many other Fox gurus from the past who may have seen "the writing on the wall" so far as they are concerned that have left the Fox world behind, never to be seen again eg., George Goley (who JVP often cites). The difference is, these people do not keep "haunting" places where people still want to use Fox, and bash it and its market place.