Craig,

On a thread like this one where I spread out my frustration I want to assure you that nothing in those replies is personal. Even if the tone seems to be provoking at times. You are amongst those that I respect a lot and that made the community so alive. Like I said it's the frustration caused by the lack of marketing on that wonderful tool.

OK now enough of that nice guy attitude ;-)

>>Oh yeah but to find it you really have to know that that's what you're looking for. Is it just a coincidence that VFP is not a member of the key topics in the developer centers when the other languages are there? Even J# is there <vbg>.
>But of course you'll find it by clicking the combobox (all products and technology) and when you finally get to the last items there it is. I guess MS is very lucky that this list is ordered alphabetically. All the visual tools are near the end. That would'nt be good for their MAJOR tools. So those important tools have their place in key topics. So only VFP got screwed up in that brilliant marketing move.
>
>Just because something is missing doesn't mean it isn't important. SQL Server is missing too.

Hmmm now it's two major tools missing. Would this mean that Visual J# is a key topic and SQL Server is not? This is getting weirder and weirder.


>>>- Ken commenting on things here on the UT *is* marketing
>>
>>Waste of energy, waste of time, waste of money. With a marketing budget so tight he should concentrate on those that don't have VFP. Not a place where the majority uses it and will probably continue to do so for a while.
>
>Huh? How do you figure? Do you think Ken promoting VFP 8 and upcoming features in VFP9 is not marketing? How many people on the UT do you think are still using VFP 6? Promoting a new version *is* marketing.

And you think they use VFP 6 because they don't know that there are newer versions? I'm currently working with version 7. And you want to know why. It's because of my principles. Those darn principles. I could do good enough with version 6 but I thought it'd be a nice gesture to support the community and get the newer version. I thought perhaps this could help the VFP department with the marketing and stuff. The way I look at it now I wonder how much of the money MS makes by selling VFP goes back to improving VFP. I would'nt be surprised if some of that money went to promoting .Net

So the next version I'll get won't be 8 but 9. There's a saying "If you scratch my back I'll scratch yours". I have a feeling that I'm the only one scratching these days.

There is a 2.6 section here. Do you think that those developers are retards?

>>>- the VSD team blog *is* marketing
>>
>>ROFL
>
>Perhaps you should start reading articles that discuss how blogs are the newest, greatest marketing tool.

One of the greatest marketing tool ??? I don't see how this could be the case. Can you explain to me how this could be the case?

>>>- Ken speaking at the Accountmate conference *is* marketing
>>>- Ken speaking at DevEssentials, DevCon, Southwest Fox, and others *is*
>>marketing
>>
>>Ken speaking in front of audiences already sold to VFP. Oh boy what a boost that'll give to VFP sales.
>
>See my above comments about upgrading.

I'll add this. If MS wants me to upgrade I'll do it but they have to prove to me that I'll be using a product they'll be fully supporting. They have to give me hope that I won't buy something that will be in a dead-end because they don't take care of it. If they don't take care of it why should I?

>>>- Ken sending data sheets to MS sales reps *is* marketing
>>
>>I've got an idea and that would'nt cost much. Instead of Ken sending data sheets to MS sales reps perhaps sales reps should send data sheets to companies. Because no matter the marketing Ken do to those sales reps I'm sure they won't buy VFP.
>
>You're "sure"? Perhaps you shouldn't speak for everyone or say things that you can't backup. Internal marketing is VERY important. In the last year, I've actually had MS sales reps here in SLC ask me about VFP. This didn't happen before.

Or perhaps this was someone working on his human skills ;->

>>>- The VFP team doing presentations of VFP to other groups inside MS (including executives) *is* marketing
>>
>>??? Could you please explain more on this one because I don't get it but if possible here apply same strategy that involved Ken and sales reps.
>
>It keeps executives in the know that VFP is a viable product that is keeping up with technology and meeting customer requests. Again, internal marketing is VERY important.

As long as it leads to something good. You rarely can change the mind of a suit when his mind is already made or if he heard that Bill G. gave clear directives about marketing for that .Net stuff


>>>Do I need to give you more examples?
>>
>>I'd be willing to see really useful examples.
>
>Define useful.

Useful is something that was'nt done before. Something new that really shows that marketing is really made on VFP.

For example right now I'm working on an app. If only the member of my community (my family and friends) are aware of its existence I'm sure that I won't sell as many as if I contacted people outside of my community.