John,

>>>Also, what is a pure DBMS language. How is it that VB is not a langauage you can write database apps with.

A DBMS language has to have a DML. And yes to the other question, this is limited to the data within the DBMS. So string manipulation is cetrainly NOT a part of the DML. Also a DMBS must have a DDL Data definition language which has the capability of creating/defining the database and tables. And this must be done natively, not with the help of libraries, DLLs, activeX or other add-ons.

I'm disapointed in your knowledge if you didn't know this. Given these rules I do think I can say that VB is NOT a DBMS language. Let me give you a hand: "An Introduction to modern database systems" written by Chris Date.

>Your response does nothing to address what makes a pure DBMS langauge... Also, lets not get personal....

I was asuming you knew this, just playing arround, sorry if you were not.

>>Data comes in many different forms, not neccesarely from a DBMS.
>OK... what other forms do business store data in, besides an RDBMS???

First. There are two forms. Data input and data output. both can be formatted files, like ASCII, Excell files, and addtional hardware. You can easely write all kinds of monitors within VB without using a DBMS, though I don't know if you regard this a business application. Also you can easely write applications wich controls external hardware which don't have anything to do with DBMSs.

>>To my limited knowledge, VB has no native Data Manipulation Language. It would be odd if a product was called a DBMS if it has not a native DML.
>
>Fact is, you can manipuate data in VB. There are string functions like VFP. I trust you are not limiting the DML to just what you can do with VFP cursors????

See above

>>Note that this message was send to a dutch guy, so I don't consider the situation in the rest of the world here. Even you can't, I know that FP 2.x and even VFP is used in the third world countries. Their limited hardware is often unable to run under Windows. B.T.W. I got this information from one employee of the World Health Organisation.
>
>My arguments tend to be on a global basis.... Drawing conclusions based on what happens in your backyard is a dangerous thing....

You were attacking my comments wich are based on local basis. Your reply doesn't change this. Besides, the world is larger than the US and Europe. What there happens we both can't see clearly.

>>>Also, it is important to note that VBA is not a script language. It has a form's designer. You can take advantage of basic/class modules written in VB or you can write them yourself in VBA. If you want to write ActiveX controls, you don't need the full VB environment. There is the VB ActiveX Control Creation Edition.... Which is free if I am not mistaken....

>>Hmm. Ok, I didn't know this. But note that in the beginning I was talking about IDEs.

>Right.... Walter, I think there is a lot here you don't know...

And you don't know. I thought we agreed to skip the personal part here.

>And IDE is not capable of much if it does not have a langauge.. The langauage is really the central part here....

This is really not this issue john, I (asuming that Wim was also) was talking about IDEs not the syntax of the language itself. Your reply doesn't change this.

>>Just a joke, because much of copying and pasting is done in VB where Visual classes are used in VFP.
>
>Well I'll tell you what Walter, I have seen alot of VFP apps where cut and pasted code was the norm... And I have seen a lot of VB apps where no cutting and pasting occurred.

Well i've alot of both.. What are you telling me john ? We both know that in general because VB lacks visual classes it requires more cut and pasting than VFP (if you want to skip the activeX part).

>I suspect you are going more on what you have heard, as opposed to what you have experienced first hand.......

Again.. Don't get personal here. I can easely say that i'm beginning to suspect
that you know less about application development and Relational Database principles that you pretent to.

Walter,